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Roth Conversions vs. Early Withdrawals: Finding the Optimal Path to After-Tax Retirement Income
Guest Expert: Jim DiLelllio, Pepperdine University
Date:
Attendee's Excellent Rating: 84%
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🔍 Overview

This webinar examined whether Roth IRA conversions or early withdrawals from tax-deferred accounts yield better after-tax retirement outcomes. Dr. DeLilio presented new research—conducted with Ed McQuarrie (Santa Clara University) and Phil Goldfriet (Northwestern University)—that models tax efficiency (“tax alpha”) in retirement income strategies.

The key takeaway: Advisors should balance early distributions from traditional IRAs and selective Roth conversions, as both can produce nearly identical long-term after-tax wealth if bracket management and heirs’ tax situations are considered.


🎯 Learning Objectives for Advisors

  1. Understand tradeoffs between early withdrawals and Roth conversions.

  2. Identify client-specific variables (income needs, longevity, heirs’ tax rates).

  3. Apply optimization logic to achieve tax-efficient after-tax income.


đź’ˇ Core Concepts

1. Roth Conversion Fundamentals

  • A Roth conversion pre-pays income tax on IRA balances now to achieve future tax-free growth.

  • It reduces future Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs), Adjusted Gross Income (AGI), and potentially IRMAA surcharges.

  • However, conversions are most efficient when done early in retirement, before higher Social Security and pension income begins.

đź“– Reference:
IRS — “Roth IRAs: Conversions”
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/roth-iras


2. Early Withdrawal Strategy

Instead of converting, retirees may draw directly from tax-deferred accounts early in retirement, keeping taxable income within favorable brackets. This:

  • Reduces future RMDs organically.

  • Locks in known tax rates today rather than speculating on future increases.

  • Often achieves similar after-tax results to Roth conversions without upfront tax costs.

đź“– Reference:
U.S. Department of the Treasury – “Required Minimum Distributions”
https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/required-minimum-distributions


3. Tax Alpha Concept

Dr. DeLilio defines “Tax Alpha” as additional equivalent return achieved through optimal tax planning rather than investment performance.

  • Traditional “alpha” measures excess return versus the market.

  • “Tax Alpha” comes from sequencing withdrawals and conversions efficiently.

In his models, optimal tax alpha averaged 0.50% (50 basis points) of portfolio value—comparable to adding meaningful investment performance through smarter tax timing.

đź“– Reference:
Financial Planning Review – “Seeking Tax Alpha in Retirement Income”
https://doi.org/10.1002/cfp2.1153


đź§® Modeling Insights

Dr. DeLilio’s analytical model optimized after-tax terminal wealth (the value passed to heirs) using three account types:

  1. Tax-deferred (Traditional IRA, 401(k)) – taxed upon withdrawal.

  2. Tax-exempt (Roth IRA) – tax-free growth and withdrawal.

  3. Taxable – receives a step-up in basis at death.

đź“– Reference:
IRS – “Step-Up in Basis at Death”
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc703

Key Findings:

  • Multiple Optimal Solutions: There isn’t just one ideal combination of withdrawals and conversions; several bracket-managed strategies yield similar outcomes.

  • Bracket Management: The optimal approach typically hovers at the top of a marginal tax bracket (e.g., 24% or 32%), avoiding IRMAA or NIIT triggers.

  • Sensitivity Analysis: Results remained stable across different inflation, market return, and longevity assumptions—meaning market conditions had minimal impact on optimal strategies.


đź§© Implications for Advisors

  1. Bracket-Aware Withdrawals
    Encourage clients to fill up current tax brackets each year (especially before RMDs or higher income years).

  2. Heirs’ Tax Rates Matter
    If heirs are in higher tax brackets, Roth conversions can improve after-tax inheritance.
    If heirs are lower income or charitable beneficiaries, Roth conversions may not make sense.

    📖 Reference: IRS Publication 590-B – “Distributions from IRAs”
    https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b

  3. Capital Gains in Taxable Accounts
    Clients with large unrealized capital gains may find Roth conversions less efficient, as paying conversion taxes often requires liquidating taxable holdings and triggering gains.

  4. Cash Source for Taxes
    Roth conversions are most efficient when conversion taxes are paid from cash or taxable accounts, not from IRA assets.

  5. The “Widow’s Penalty”
    Advisors should consider future filing status changes: after one spouse dies, the survivor’s income may be taxed at higher single rates. Conversions before this event can help mitigate that shift.

    📖 Reference: Tax Foundation – “Understanding the Widow’s Penalty”
    https://taxfoundation.org/widows-penalty-tax-code/


đź§  Practical Scenarios Discussed

  • 90-Year-Old Legacy Planner:
    Roth conversions may still help reduce estate tax exposure if heirs face high brackets—but benefits are limited without liquidity to pay conversion taxes.

  • High Net Worth “Die With Zero” Case:
    For clients intentionally spending down all assets, Roth conversions add little value. Tax-deferred withdrawals at known rates are simpler and equally efficient.

  • Married Couples with Large IRAs:
    Early withdrawals before one spouse’s death can reduce future single-filer tax burdens.


đź§° Recommended Software & Tools

Dr. DeLilio referenced several modeling and optimization platforms:

  • ETFMathGuy.com – His proprietary research calculators and tax-efficiency tools.

  • Income Lab – Dynamic retirement income modeling.

  • Holistiplan – Tax projection integration.

  • RightCapital – Roth conversion scenario modeling.


🔚 Key Takeaways

✅ Both early IRA withdrawals and Roth conversions can achieve optimal after-tax wealth — advisors should consider client longevity, heirs’ tax brackets, and liquidity.
âś… Tax efficiency can add roughly 0.5% in annual portfolio value, comparable to active management alpha.
âś… Bracket management is the most controllable driver of after-tax performance.
✅ Roth conversions carry longevity risk—they pay off only if the client lives long enough or if heirs’ tax rates are high.
âś… For many clients, hybrid strategies (partial conversions + selective withdrawals) provide the best blend of flexibility and efficiency.


đź§ľ Fact Check URLs

  1. IRS – Roth IRA Conversions: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/roth-iras

  2. U.S. Treasury – Required Minimum Distributions: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/required-minimum-distributions

  3. Financial Planning Review – Seeking Tax Alpha in Retirement Income: https://doi.org/10.1002/cfp2.1153

  4. IRS – Step-Up in Basis: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc703

  5. IRS Publication 590-B (IRA Distributions): https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b

  6. Tax Foundation – Widow’s Penalty Explanation: https://taxfoundation.org/widows-penalty-tax-code/

 

Attendees Comments:

A few comments from listeners when they were asked what the learned from the webinar:

Interesting to hear and see an academic's perspective on Roth conversions. It is definitely one of the greyer areas of financial planning especially when considering retirement income and taxation. Thought he did a great job with the resources he has.
- Mack B.

That there isn't much tax alpha to gain from optimizing either method. That longevity risk can often outweigh the incremental advantage of optimization. Thanks for providing the hard math evidence to what I intuitively suspected - Roth conversions are over-hyped.
- Kristen B.

Withdrawing from tax deferred accounts is a strategy to minimize taxes in some cases better than a Roth conversion.
- Stephanie G.

missy@financia…

Thu, 10/30/2025 - 15:55

Comments
A few comments from listeners when they were asked what the learned from the webinar:

Interesting to hear and see an academic's perspective on Roth conversions. It is definitely one of the greyer areas of financial planning especially when considering retirement income and taxation. Thought he did a great job with the resources he has.
- Mack B.

That there isn't much tax alpha to gain from optimizing either method. That longevity risk can often outweigh the incremental advantage of optimization. Thanks for providing the hard math evidence to what I intuitively suspected - Roth conversions are over-hyped.
- Kristen B.

Withdrawing from tax deferred accounts is a strategy to minimize taxes in some cases better than a Roth conversion.
- Stephanie G.
Roth Conversions vs. Early Withdrawals: Finding the Optimal Path to After-Tax Retirement Income 10-29-2025

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